Vacuum Pump

[freds]

This is what my contact says to use, that uses air pressure to create a vacuum.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#41605k14/=5w35p6

and then these cups

http://www.mcmaster.com/#vacuum-pumps/=5w3azu

We could pick these up on Saturday from Mcmaster.

Are they legal? I think so.

[Michael Kapp]

I think you meant this for the cups. http://www.mcmaster.com/#vacuum-pumps/=5w3gnm
But exactly which one?

[Tanner]

I think you meant this for the cups. http://www.mcmaster.com/#vacuum-pumps/=5w3gnm
But exactly which one?

Heh. You've got to pick the right link to link, otherwise you get no link linking to where you wish to link.

Those vacuum pumps seem pretty expensive. What makes them different than the tiny one we've got right now? Just better?

-Tanner

[Sunny]

Kapp, your link goes to the same links as Mr. Smith's post.

Below is a picture of a robot's suction cup setup and the type of cups they are using.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/34886?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showt ... t=impeller

Above are pictures of team 123. One of the more public suction teams. You can see the impeller.

Below are pictures of team 1771's impeller and some of their posts.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showp ... stcount=56 ( Mr. Wilson's post on the impeller)

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showt ... 771+teaser (Picture of 1771's two stage impeller from a shop vac)

http://picasaweb.google.com/mwilson417/ ... 0341913650 (Picture of impeller setup)

http://picasaweb.google.com/mwilson417/ ... 7521782866 (Impeller can be see on the side)

From what I've read. 1771 is using 2 FP motors with a 1:1. The impeller is a two stage impeller.

And my apologies, but the two stage gearbox we have right now is a 13.5:1 reduction. This equates to roughly 1155 RPM. The regular 1:1 RPM of the FP motor 15600 RPM. The FIRST stage reduction is a 3.67:1.

EDIT: A team has had success with the impeller from the vac below. I really think a stronger, more efficient impeller would definitely serve our purposes well.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1 ... ogId=10053

[Sunny]

This is what my contact says to use, that uses air pressure to create a vacuum.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#41605k14/=5w35p6

and then these cups

http://www.mcmaster.com/#vacuum-pumps/=5w3azu

We could pick these up on Saturday from Mcmaster.

Are they legal? I think so.

I bring good news. Looking through the rules, I found rule R72-H

This rule reads: "For the purposes of the FIRST competition, a device that creates a vacuum is not considered to be a pneumatic device and are not subject to the pneumatic rules (although they must still satisfy all other appropriate rules). These include, but are not limited to, venturi-type vacuum generators and off-the-shelf vacuum devices (as long as they are powered by provided or permitted motors)."

Thus, the vacuum pumps are legal, and we can indeed use them.

[Tanner]

*yay*

*throws arms up*

-Tanner

[freds]

1771 shows a lot of power driving the drive. A lot of special/custom drive hardware.

Can we do with one FP? We first have to figure out how to get that drive belt type pully on an FP. Then we have to figure out how they manage that octupus array mounting for the shop vac. It kinda looks like the original mount for the original motor, without the motor. A lot of special stuff. Probably more than we can get done in a week.

Since the 'vacuum pumps' are legal, lets lean that way. Look at the weight they can handle, 18 pounds, should be great for the ball. We have onboard air.

If I could figure out how to get some decent gear on a FP motor, I would, just not sure. Could we take the FP with the gear drive and ratio backup for speed? We could, but then we would need some nifty octupus rig to hold the shaft in place on the impeller as 1771.

Lets lean towards the vacuum pumps. We can control these with the pneumatic switches we have. With a shop vac pump, you can turn the motor off, but no instant control of suction. The only real way to create instant release would be to use a 'waste gate' type valve/gate as on a turbo. We would have to use a flap and some gate to instantly remove vacuum to kick.

Vacuum pump...................

[Sunny]

1771 shows a lot of power driving the drive. A lot of special/custom drive hardware.

Can we do with one FP? We first have to figure out how to get that drive belt type pully on an FP. Then we have to figure out how they manage that octupus array mounting for the shop vac. It kinda looks like the original mount for the original motor, without the motor. A lot of special stuff. Probably more than we can get done in a week.

Since the 'vacuum pumps' are legal, lets lean that way. Look at the weight they can handle, 18 pounds, should be great for the ball. We have onboard air.

If I could figure out how to get some decent gear on a FP motor, I would, just not sure. Could we take the FP with the gear drive and ratio backup for speed? We could, but then we would need some nifty octupus rig to hold the shaft in place on the impeller as 1771.

Lets lean towards the vacuum pumps. We can control these with the pneumatic switches we have. With a shop vac pump, you can turn the motor off, but no instant control of suction. The only real way to create instant release would be to use a 'waste gate' type valve/gate as on a turbo. We would have to use a flap and some gate to instantly remove vacuum to kick.

Vacuum pump...................

I'm willing to try whatever we trust will work. If you believe the vacuum pump is the best way, so be it.

How exactly do they work? Do we just pull in air, and then it creates suction or how?

[freds]

They use a venturi type device. As we saw today, they like 'air'. Dropping the regulated psi to 40 vs 60, we can probably withstand that. There is no doubt they can grab and hold, but only if the ball is right on the cup. As we talked, we need to figure out how to get some FPs powering a vac impeller. This want happen on Sunday, but we can keep working on.